MOTO GP

[vesna8.11]

Odg: MOTO GP

Mislim da bi jedna dublja analiza koristila i nama damama----narocito meni koja se tako malo razumem u takve stvari!

zamolila bih naseg moderatora da objasni, sto pre, ali da se ne nervira.

[N_Trooper]

Odg: MOTO GP

[quote author=vesna8.11 link=topic=1368.msg117390#msg117390 date=1267716014]
Mislim da bi jedna dublja analiza koristila i nama damama----narocito meni koja se tako malo razumem u takve stvari!

zamolila bih naseg moderatora da objasni, sto pre, ali da se ne nervira.
[/quote]

[ferrari1]

Odg: MOTO GP

JB je upravu,Dorna je od kraja 990cc-a donosila brzoplete odluke,bez dugotrajne koristi,nisu nista uradili da poboljsaju kvalitetu moto gp sampionata,da povecaju broj ekipa na gridu,rjesenja se trebaju donositi planski,koja ce se ticati buducnosti moto gp-a na duze staze.Prelazak na 1000cc,2012,nece donjeti nista korisnog sto se tice fabrickki ekipa,vec ce mnogo toga unazaditi,sve iz pocetka,povecace se broj ekipa,na gridu,ali prvi i osnovni razlog prelaska na 800cc,je bio zbog smanjenja brzine samih motora,ali gledajte dokle smo stigli,ove 800cc lete stazama,brze od 990cc-a,nista se nije postigli,kao i sam prelazak na 1000cc nece donjeti nista novog,sem povratka na stare staze,bez konkretnog argumenta,sem popunjavanja grida.Mislim da je 600cc buducnost moto gp-a,to bi trebala biti baza moto gp-a,prevenstveno bi godilo i privatnim ekipama,da motor cini bazu,a ekipe oko njega grade ostatak,a mnogo bi se novca ustedjelo.Poncharal s druge strane gleda prvenstveno finansijsku stranu svega,privatnim ekipama ovo omogucava da taktiziraju,da imaju fabricki motor,a da oko njega grade ostatak,ukoliko sa fabrickom ekipom ne postignu dogovor,u vezi cijelog paketa,pruza im se mogucnost da testiraju fabricke 1000cc-e,a fabricke da se vozikaju na sigurnim 800cc,dok ne vide kako ce proci 1000cc-e,ali sve to nista novog nece donijeti,vec ce sve biti po starom,vraca se sve na pocetak.Da se ja pitam sampionat bi bio po kubikazama 500cc,250cc i 125cc.

[Sale 46]

[L. Lawliet]

Odg: MOTO GP

Tesko je ovdje zauzeti bilo cije misljenje u potpunosti. Odluke koje Dorna donosi su pogubne za kategoriju, a sve u nekom Cilju da se uspori Valentino. Toliko promjena u kratko vrijeme koje su se izdesavale od pocetka Valentinove dominacije mi samo to sugerise. Drugo mislim da JB ima poentu donekle, 600cc ja lagana kategorija gdje svako oce da se prodruzi, vidite samo koliko je timova u gridu, koliko razlicitih sponzora kao zlatni dani MotoGp konkurencije. Ako bi smanjili elektroniku na neki minimum a uspjeli iz 600cc da izvucu vecu snagu nego recimo iz 800cc naravno da bi buducnost bila 600cc. To je manja kubikaza, linije koje bi se vozile takvim motorm a opet sa takvom snagom bile bi neshto neponovljivo uvjeren sam u to. I sto Sale kaze troskovi za takve masine su manj. Mislim da bi opeth gledali borbe gdje svako ima neku svoju putanju i dobra obilazenja. Konkurentnost bi bila veca a samim time i spektakl za oci. E sad losa strana je shto se nece desiti da ti Motori dozive takav procvat u tom smjeru s toga je glupo silaziti sto kazu s konja na magarca.
1000cc jos nije pocela sa radom pa sad Poncaral moze da prica shto hoce, ako bude ovo bice bolje, ako bude ono bice bolje da da AKO. Nacin na koji Poncaral predstavlja 1000cc ispada da ce stvarno biti genijalno. Vise timova, veca kubikaza, zvijeri od motora i sl, al dal se zapitao on koliko ce elektronike biit dozvoljeno, koliko ce se para morati uloziti u te motore da bi bili bezbjedni jer jer bez tone elektronike to je Dorni nemoguce ocigledno. Koliko su para ulozili u 800cc od uvodjenja iz samo tih nekih gluposti, koliko testiranja, koliko je potrosenih motora proslo samo da bi se ta masina uvela u red? Sve je to sada pod znakom pitanja. Mislim da mi svi koji pratimo ovaj sport znamo shto treba da se desi da bi se Poncharalova zelja ispunila i MotoGp postao ono o chemu on sanja, a isto mislmi i za JB-a.
Ja smatram da su oboje upravu. Ako se napravi ono shto oni zamisljaju to bi bile dvije genijalne kategorije (ne bi morala biti samo MotoGp). Na kraju samo ce se Dorna pitati i sve zavisi od pravila koje ona uvede. Kako su krenuli napravice od MotoGp-a formulu 1.

[N_Trooper]

[ferrari1]

Odg: MOTO GP

Ja upotpunosti podrzavam JB-a,stari lisac,upravo je taj tehnoloski razvoj,kao sto kaze N_Trooper sjebao sve,ali najvise i zbog toga kritikuje JB Dornu,ljudi jednostavno nisu razmisljali i donosili odluke na duze staze i zbog toga imamo ovo sranje,da su barem donjeli planski program u narednih deset godina,stvari bi bile drugacije,ali ima jedna stvar koja je malo diskutabilna,a to je da JB nije previse mario za privatne ekipe,kojima je ova odluka znatno prihvatljivija,u svakom pogledu,bilo finasijski,razvojski itd,ali ocigledno da pare nisu problem za fabricke ekipe,pa je JB odmah krenuo u napad,da ove odluke vracaju sve na pocetak,ali Poncharal svoje razmisljanje prije svega veze na stranu finansija i razvoja,koje ce,odlukom koju je Dorna donjela,donjeti mnogo pozitivnijeg i boljeg za privatne ekpie.Ali ja sam uz JB-a h5g6k8

[ferrari1]

Odg: MOTO GP

[blink]Moto2 Costs "About 400,000 Euros A Season" According To Suter[/blink]


As much as they will be missed, there was one very clear reason the 250s were replaced by the Moto2 class: Cost. The virtual monopoly that Aprilia had in the 250cc class meant that the Italian factory could ask whatever it liked for a competitive bike, and could pick and choose the riders to bless with competitive material. If you wanted to win races and have a shot at the title, you had little choice but to stump up the million plus euros that Aprilia was asking for a factory-spec RSA 250. It was possible to compete on the cheap - a privateer LE spec machine could be had for as little as 250,000 euros, though engine and chassis upgrades were still extremely expensive - but the only chance of success (and therefore publicity) would come in the rain, when the power advantage of the top bikes disappeared.

The idea behind Moto2 is incredibly simple: As the engine sucks up most of the cost of development in racing motorcycles, replace the engine with a cheaply available production-based unit, stick it in a prototype chassis and you have an affordable race bike. But just how "affordable" is a Moto2 machine? At the Valencia test, Spanish veteran journalist Mela Chercoles, writing for AS.com, asked Eskil Suter about the costs involved. Suter, whose bikes dominate the grid, if not the timesheets, came up with a figure of around 400,000 euros a season, per rider. Chercoles broke the costs down as follows:

* 17,250 euros registration deposit for each rider, with the money being returned at the end of the season;
* Around 100,000 euros per machine, though this is an average. The cheapest bike being the Suter (70,000 euros), the RSV - used by the Mapfre Aspar team - the most expensive, at 145,000 euros;
* Purchase and maintenance costs for a Moto2 bike for the full year come to a total of 400,000 euros, according to Suter;
* Engine lease and maintenance costs are around 90,000 euros a season;
* A 20,000 euro bond to be paid if the team believes the engine is not performing as expected, and wish to return the engine before the 1500km or 3 race period is up. If Geo Technology, who are performing the maintenance on the engine, test it and find it is within spec, then the team will forfeit that 20,000 euros;
* 12 Dunlop tires per race weekend will cost a grand total of 40,000 euros for a season. That gives each team 204 tires a season, at an average cost of just under 200 euros a tire.
* 3,500 euros for the 2D datalogger used on all of the bikes.

Of course, there's a lot that isn't included here. The most obvious omission would appear to be the salaries paid to the riders, but an educated guess suggests that at least half of the current grid will be riding for free, with the majority of those required to actually bring money to the team. Around 200,000 euros seemed to be the going rate for a competent rider to join a competent team, but at least one rider is believed to have contributed upwards of half a million euros to be racing in Moto2.

While the riders will race for free, either spending their parents' money or the money of sponsors they have brought to the team, the mechanics, team manager, hospitality staff, press officers and photographers need to be paid in cold, hard cash. Some of those jobs are farmed out to freelancers - photography is often farmed out to one of the army of freelancers or private agencies present at every race, but even that costs around 15,000 euros a year from some of the better agencies in the paddock. Hospitality staff are often hired locally, and so do not need accommodation and lodging for the weekend, but still need paying. The hospitality units themselves are specially designed units, as are the race trucks used to transport the bikes from circuit to circuit. And speaking of transport, everyone needs to be moved around Europe and the world, and given lodging and food for the duration of their stay.

Add these to the costs of the bikes, and you still have a hefty sum that needs to be laid out to go racing for a season. Though a team could probably recoup a big chunk of the investment in bikes by selling them on at the end of the year - something which was impossible with the 250s, which were only available under a lease arrangement - and the cost of a race truck and hospitality unit can be spread over multiple riders, classes and even seasons, there is still a big chunk of money that goes towards just turning up at each race. One prominent team manager estimated that running a two-rider team in Moto2 would cost in the region of 2.5 million euros, a figure another team manager laughed away, saying it could be done much cheaper. But the truth is, though the bikes may be cheap, the surrounding logistics mean you are unlikely to see much change from 1.5 million euros for a two-rider team. Even cheap racing isn't really cheap.

[perlez]

Odg: MOTO GP

/#*^D

[N_Trooper]

Odg: MOTO GP

[quote author=perlez link=topic=1368.msg117479#msg117479 date=1267799429]
[youtube][/youtube]
[/quote]

[Sale 46]

[vezara]

Odg: MOTO GP

Bravo momci na zanimljivim pisanijama... +*@WT*48* Citajuci sve ovo dosao sam do svojih nekih zakljucaka. Kada se prelazilo sa dvotaktnih na cetvorotaktne motore, morala je da se poveca kubikaza da bi mogla da parira brzim dvotaktnim motorima. Sada je tehnologija toliko napredovala, da bi cetvorotaktne masine od 500 verovatno mogle da pariraju tadasnjim dvotaktnim. U tom smislu ja razumem JB-a sta hoce da kaze.
Medjutim hiljadarke su komercijalno najpopularnije masine, a time i najprihvatljivije resenje da bi se podigao broj motora na stazi. Upravo iz tih trkackih hiljadarki bi se mnoga resenja koristila i u komercijane svrhe. 600ccm je odmah tu blizu, samo malo manje snage, manje brzine, itd. Upravo zato je moto2 odlicno resenje.
Kao sto Sale rece, motoGP nekako mora da bude najjaca, tj najbrza trkacka klasa... Pa je u tom smislu logican izbor 1000ccm. Medjutim, zbog, vec pomenutog, ogromnog razvoja motora, mora se pristupiti ogranicenjima koje bi sprecile da motori postanu samoubilacke letilice. Zato je uveden max precnik od 81mm. Ogranicenja u tom smislu jesu dobra kada je u pitanju smanjenje brzine, medjutim mislim da se ta resenja ne dopadaju inzenjerima koji razvijaju agregate. Zato je JB-u verovatno veci izazov 600ccm... koja ne bi imale ogranicenja...
Upravo bi to mogla da bude razlika u misljenju JB-a i Poncharol-a. Jedan je inzenjer u fabrickoj masini koji se verovatno pita o razvoju motora, a drugi je inzenjer u privatnoj masini koji brine o svemu sem tome. Poncharol itekako zavisi od finasija, koje su postale vece od prelaska na 800, zato je i razumljiva njegova zelja da se vrati na 1000ccm.
Nesto nisam u elementu za pisanje pa ne znam da li sve ovo ima smisla... &Q45q@% (%fsd%&j

[gagaj]

Odg: MOTO GP

Uuuuu,meni treba par dana da procitam sve sto se napisali i upijem to #^GH*#.
Pa,nista....vikend...zanimljiva literatura..... $*(5f

[L. Lawliet]

Odg: MOTO GP

U sustini sve zavisi od razvoja sto kaze trooper o cemu svi mi razmisljamo. Jerry rijetko ovako blati nekog, ovo je za njega novitet, al ne zaboravite jos nesto Jerry se ne protivi elektronici na motoru, on je presrecan zbog nje.

[gagaj]

Odg: MOTO GP

[ftp][/ftp]http://www.crash.net/motogp/news/157453/1/rossi_may_be_lucky__but_you_make_your_own_luck.htm l