Opste teniske diskusije,vijesti...

[147]

Imam neki osecaj da ce pocetkom 40tih godina ovog veka poceti nova, golden era tenisa. U toj eri ce svi turniri biti u obavezi da imaju krovove i svi mecevi ce morati da se igraju u odgovarajucim uslovim ( npr. temperatura izmedju 16 i 28 stepeni itd...). Ovu eru svi ce smatrati za nefer eru i nece se ni gledati rezultati sadanji. Tako nikog nece briga za danasnje rezultate, kao sto nas nije briga sta je bilo 60tih i kao sto mi samo brojimo slemove od 69. U toj eri ce nekog novog lika sa 10 slemova zvati GOATom...

[Mr. Wolf]

Ja se nadam da ce do tada ukinuti tenis ili da ce bar totalno propasti.

[Joker]

Imam neki osecaj da ce pocetkom 40tih godina ovog veka poceti nova, golden era tenisa. U toj eri ce svi turniri biti u obavezi da imaju krovove i svi mecevi ce morati da se igraju u odgovarajucim uslovim ( npr. temperatura izmedju 16 i 28 stepeni itd...). Ovu eru svi ce smatrati za nefer eru i nece se ni gledati rezultati sadanji. Tako nikog nece briga za danasnje rezultate, kao sto nas nije briga sta je bilo 60tih i kao sto mi samo brojimo slemove od 69. U toj eri ce nekog novog lika sa 10 slemova zvati GOATom...

U prvi dio uopste ne sumnjam. Drugi nema sanse da se desi.

[pecaros]

Davno dođoh do zaključka kako će tv kuće uništiti igru u obliku kakav poznajemo istovremeno se nadajući da tome neću biti savremenikom ali avaj, izgleda da uzaludna nada to beše.
Format best of five je esencija onog što nazivamo Slemom, njegov zaštitni znak, nerazdvojivi deo.
Na mala vrata su format od 2008-e izbacili iz finala tadašnje Masters serije a ukoliko to urade za bilo koju fazu Slema onda tu treba staviti tačku bar kada je o istoriji igre reč. Neka preseku i započnu novu u koju će uvesti svoja nova pravila i svoje satove tako neprikladne za igru bez vremenskog ograničenja.
DC je ovih dana mučki ubijen, sledeći neka se spremi Slem.

[Vladan]

Zanimljivo

Tennis Big Three: Some overlooked (and not so much) stats.

(Code to obtain numerous tables for this article is available at
https://github.com/UsDAnDreS/Tennis_Stuff)

How about I'll just start off by looking at these predictions from year 2013 of "What mens tennis Top-10 will look like in 2018"? It is always fun.



Unofficially formed around 2008, the Big Three of Roger Federer, Rafael Nadal and Novak Djokovic are still going strong as of 2018.

Djokovic dominated the tour heavily in the years of 2015-2016, culminating that run of excellence with his maiden French Open crown in 2016. This title left him in possession of all four slams at the same time (spanning from Wimbledon 2015) - something that had only been done once before in the Open Era of men's tennis (Rod Laver, 1969).

In the meantime, Roger Federer was struggling with the peaking Serb. News didn't get better when the 17-slam champ got a season-ending knee injury before US Open 2016, putting a big question mark on his future career success. Given the fact that Swiss maestro had been slamless for 4 years straight, it was tough to envision this injury help his cause.

As for Rafael Nadal, Spaniardhe was having an injury-ridden season of his own in 2016. The Spaniard had to forfeit from his 3R match at French Open and to miss the grass court season in its entirety as well. His 4th round exit at USO against Lucas Pouille didn't instill much confidence in Rafa's prospects for 2017 and beyond either.

Back in early 2017, Federer had been standing still at 17 slams for five years straight, while Rafa hadn't added to his slam tally (14 as of then) since his French Open win of 2014.

And yet here we are, in the late summer of 2018:



I woke up... and it's 2008/09 again.

Early in 2017, when the world least expected it, Roger Federer & Rafael Nadal decided to hit a "Replay" button on their careers and both fought their ways to Australian Open final. This 5-set thriller saw Federer overcome all the demons against his ultra-nemesis and come back from 1*-3 down in the decider to clinch the coveted 18th Grand Slam title.

The dynamic duo proceeded to win the following 5 slams between them - Rafa grabbed both French Opens and USO'17, while Fed didn't let up with his 8th Wimbledon title and a repeat at AO in 2018.

It certainly started feeling like the good old times of years 2008 & 2009, when the two were trading blows and winning 3 slams each through that time frame.

Given that piece of information, it should come as no surprise seeing the two arguably best tennis players of all time occupying the Top-2 spots of the tennis world right now. Ten years later. With Rafa being 32 years of age, Roger - whopping 37.



Novak Djokovic: story curve of his own.
After dominating the ATP tour handily in years 2015-2016 and being proclaimed as the most likely threat to Federer's slam record, Novak has hit a strong decline following his French Open 2016 win (details of which might take a book of its own).

Outside of Novak's US Open final appearance against Wawrinka in 2016, the former world #1 couldn't reach a slam semifinal until Wimbledon of this year. But seeing the renaissance his fellow two all-time greats eventually experienced later on in their career, it was only natural to assume that Djokovic was going to find his groove sooner or later.

Currently, Djokovic is hovering around at #10 and has just officially made his claim for being back in the conversation of all-time greats by winning his well-deserved 13th slam at Wimbledon'18. His epic semifinal battle against Rafael Nadal, with Novak prevailing 10-8 in the fifth, might've claimed an early match of the year award, and a strong statement from the Serb.

Now onto the juice of the article - I will simply point out certain career numbers (obtained from a tennis match database spanning from year 1968 to 2018) that emphasize various aspects of greatness for those three athletes. Some of those aspects might be easily overlooked (see Federer, and Djokovic to an extent), others - not so much (see Nadal).

Federer doesn't retire, and he means it.

Albeit all the records Federer holds, some of the most notable ones including 20 Mens Singles Grand Slams, 310 total weeks at World #1, 23 consecutive men's Grand Slam semi-finals, one of them hardly ever gets brought up.

I'm talking about the one described in the Guiness World Records book as "Most matches played on ATP World Tour without retiring". But even this formulation doesn't capture the main idea - it simply points to Swiss maestro accumulating the largest streak of matches without retirement.

The main aspect is that Federer hasn't retired from a match once. Ever. In none of his mind-boggling 1415 matches. Once he entered the court, the Swiss proceeded to finish the match, win or lose, no exceptions.

To visualize the magnitude of this particular achievement, below I provide a Top-10 all-time leaderboard of players to never have retired from a match. It is as of May 28 (hence doesn't include Fed's Stuttgart-Halle-Wimbledon runs) and is ordered by the number of matches they played throughout career.



The gap of 500 matches from the next closest player - John Alexander - is mind-blowing to say the least. Marin Cilic is the only other active player to make the list, keeping his hopes "alive" at roughly 680 matches as of now. It is worth to note that Marin came close to a RET in a Wimbledon final against none else but Roger Federer in 2017.

Nadal's clay dominance in numbers.

I've slacked on this one and simply decided to go with the obvious - Rafael Nadal is the greatest claycourt player ever by a wide margin, and this statement should stand a solid test of time.

If you were to look at the win-loss differentials on the surface, Rafa surprisingly doesn't quite make it to the #1 spot all time.

Guillermo "Grass is for cows" Villas has him covered by sheer volume of matches played. Villas padded that differential by skipping plenty of elite grass- & hard-court events, and playing tons of smaller clay tournaments against weaker opposition.
If there is an aspect where Nadal doesn't have an equal, that would be efficiency. Rafa is #1 all-time by far in regards of winning percentage on the surface among all the players who mustered at least 300 career matches on clay.





The only guy to at least see Nadal as a dot on the horizon is Bjorn Borg - a sizeable 5% behind. The rest of the guys are biting the dust by whopping 10+%.

Swede's efficiency has stood strong for numerous decades until the Spaniard came long. Even given that high % from the first authentic tennis rockstar that Borg was, Nadal has played 138 more clay matches and is still considerably more efficient - a mind-blowing feat, mathematically speaking.

To potentially grasp that, you could simply picture a Michael Jordan who would take twice as many shots (and he already took a lot) with his shooting % only going up. That's what Nadal is. Well... on clay.

Another angle to judge Rafa's clay greatness is to see the quality that Federer and Djokovic posed on the surface against players not named Nadal. Both the Swiss and the Serb had positive clay head-to-heads (against players they faced at least 3 times on the surface) against everyone on tour but five players each.



While I am sort of complimenting the other two members of the Big Three, please just take a moment and look at what Rafa did to them on that surface. Unprecedented dominance, which is unsurprisingly reflected in mind-boggling eleven Roland Garros crowns - a single slam record, by far and away (eight Wimbledons by Roger at second).

Djokovic - a head-to-head king.

Djokovic easily has the claim for the highest peak form of all time during those 2015-2016 seasons. His head-to-head records against the two best players that ever lived speak for themselves - Novak is 27-25 against Rafa and 23-22 against Roger, a lot of the wins coming in that period.

Besides being up on his co-greats, Nole has the upper hand on most of the players that he faced at least three times. Below are the only negative H2H match-ups both Novak and Rafa have against players who took on them at least three times (somewhat of a "respectable" sample, if you will).



Novak's only semblance of a nemesis concept is Andy Roddick, who one-upped him across 9 matches when it was all said and done. The other two guys - Gonzalez and Karlovic - Nole has only got to play three times, and as of now Djokovic is yet to allow a two-match lead to anyone who got to play him that much.

In the meantime, Rafa has losing records against Novak himself (tough point to overcome in a "Head-to-Head King" argument), with Nikolay Davydenko being the other uncomfortable match-up. Having played the Russian a considerable number of times (11), Rafa lost on six occasions. Meanwhile Dominic Hrbaty, the funky Solvak, says hello with a 3-1 lead on the Spaniard, which is to be taken with a grain of salt (all three wins came when Rafa was 16-18 years old).

To be fair and complete, Djokovic does have 0-2 career head-to-head deficits against a couple of players (hats off to my idol Marat Safin, and the tennis bad boy Nick Kyrgios). But if we go there, then let's not forget about Nadal's two losses in as many matches against the likes of Alex Corretja and Dustin Brown.

[E1_PG]

[amnesiac]

Opste teniske diskusije,vijesti...

Djokovicu ne odgovara nizi odskok, a ne toliko brzina podloge. To je ono sto njega najvise zeza u Sinsiju.
A Sangaj je mozda trenutno nabrzi, opet ne verujem da je ranijih godina bio najbrzi masters. Ne mogu da tvrdim.
Djokovic je jednostavno suvise dobar igrac, da bi ga specificnost ili uslovi na odredjenim turnirima razdvajali od uspeha na istima. Federer i Nadal takodje, pa cak i Endi Marej.
Izner pravi uspehe na turnirima sa najvisim odskokom jer mu to najvise odgovara. Na servis njegov bilo koja ppdloga ne utice nista specijalno, a odskok mu i te kako pogoduje udarcima, cak je na nesto sporijim podlogama njegova inace ocajna defanziva bitan faktor. Sve to kada se upakuje dobijamo logican epilog.

Kasnim, ali, eto, nema velikih sporenja između nas. Što se tiče Šangaja i Sinsinatija ni moje oko ne umije dobro procijeniti brzine podloge, pa se uzdam u zvanična mjerenja. Ovo je pace index za dvije sezone.





Kad su ubrzali uslove, tj. promijenili loptice u Australiji prošle godine, pomenuli su da je jedino Šangaj brži od Rod Laver Arene. A opet smo imali finale između Federera i Nadala. U polufinalu su još bili Wawrinka i Dimitrov. Đoković i Murray su imali problema koje nemaju veze sa brzinom podloge. Hoću da kažem da ubrzavanje podloga ne vodi favorizovanju servis - bombardera. Doduše, ubrzanje pomaže Raoniću i Kyrgiosu jer iako su vrlo visoki (za tenis ta visina nije ništa drastično iznad prosjeka jer viših ima dosta nego nijesu toliko dobri serveri) dovoljno su niski da im kretanje i reakcija na brzoj podlozi nije problematična. Na kraju, njihova visina je približna Krajičekovoj i Ivaniševićevoj koji su devedesetih bili u vrhu najboljih servera. A ovamo Majami koji omogućava momku od 208 cm da bez problema stiže sve lopte a servisima uništava. Sva moja priča se svodi da se ne smije dozvoliti da u budućnosti server da bi bio dobar ne mora imati visinu krilnog centra, tj. da se tenis ne pretvori u ono u što se pretvorila teška kategorija u boksu kad su zavladala braća Kličko čime je pala popularnost tog sporta, a taj trend se samo nastavlja.

Novak je u Sinsinatiju gubio od

Karlosa Moje 2007
Mareja 2008 F
Federera 2009 F
Rodika 2010 u QF
Marej 2011 predaja
Federer2012 F
Izner 2013 QF
Robredo 2014
Federer 2015 F

Kako ovo tumačiš i da li je moglo imati neke veze sa podlogom?
Ako izuzmemo Robreda i Karlosa Moju rekla bih da itekako ima.

Dio poraza ima veze s podlogom, ali nijesam o tome pisao. Pisao sam o tome da ne stoji priča kako mu podloga ne odgovara. Odgovara mu, samo što ima igrača kojima odgovara još više. Pa, ljudi, čovjek je igrao pet finala i ušao u šesto. Nadal je osvojio Sinsinati, ali mu duplo mu manje odgovaraju uslovi od Đokovića.

Edit: ovaj post sam napisao prije dva dana i zaboravih da ga pošaljem, a u međuvremenu je Novak osvojio. Mislim da je sad primjereniji ovoj temi.

[Sandugp]

Zverev mora kad-tad nesto napraviti na slemu. I ako bih ja voleo da se to ne desi nikada neki zapazeniji rezultat bi trebao u doglednom periodu da stvori.
E sada u koliko se to ne desi do kraja sledece sezone, onda njegovi simpatizeri mogu da pocnu ozbiljno da se brinu za njegovu karijeru.
Ne mora da osvoji. Polufinale - finale bi bio ogroman uspeh.
Ima jedno jedio cetvrtfinale i to na ovogodisnjem RG a samo zato sto mu je zreb do tog cetvrtfinala bio na nivou dvestapedesetice.
Opet kvalitetan je igrac i mora na najvecim pozornicama poceti da pravi rezultate. Ova tri mastersa su ekstra vrh. Cini mi se da jedan Endi Marej nije imao toliko u njegovim godinama, ali igra na slemovima opasno zabrinjava.

[Stefan-kobe]

Njemu treba promena trenera, lik vec godinu i po se nije pomerio ni milimetar sto se igre tice. Jednostavno je taj limit dostigao, nek ostavi on tata u strucnom stabu to nije frka, al neka angazuje Lendla il Bekera, narocito ovaj prvi mu se nudi vec nekoliko puta.

[Weltschmerz]

Sve jedno on ima da se nauzima titula kad se velika trojka povuče. Konkurenicja je očajna, ne bi me čudilo da uzme Golden masters mnogo brže nego što je to Novaku trebalo.

[Marija81]

Sve jedno on ima da se nauzima titula kad se velika trojka povuče. Konkurenicja je očajna, ne bi me čudilo da uzme Golden masters mnogo brže nego što je to Novaku trebalo.

Od toga nema ništa...svi su oni tu negde i svako od novajlija može da zabrlja ali i da zablista.Niko nije toliko dominantan...a to je po talentu mogao biti blesavi Kirjos...

[Weltschmerz]

Ja mislim da će Zverev da izdominira kada ovi još malo ostare i počnu da se povlače. Jedino ako se pojavi neki novi klinac, ovo sad je jad i beda.

[Sandugp]

Ja mislim da će Zverev da izdominira kada ovi još malo ostare i počnu da se povlače. Jedino ako se pojavi neki novi klinac, ovo sad je jad i beda.

Pa u odnosu na proslu i lretproslu sezonu i nike bas jad i beda.

[dekkard]

Sve jedno on ima da se nauzima titula kad se velika trojka povuče. Konkurenicja je očajna, ne bi me čudilo da uzme Golden masters mnogo brže nego što je to Novaku trebalo.

Prvo i prvo, velika trojka nisu ista generacija pa se neće povući istovremeno. Rodžer, pa posle 4-5 godina Nadal, pa godinu, dve nakon njega Novak.

[Marija81]

Prvo i prvo, velika trojka nisu ista generacija pa se neće povući istovremeno. Rodžer, pa posle 4-5 godina Nadal, pa godinu, dve nakon njega Novak.

To što nisu ista generacija ne igra ulogu uopšte.David Ferer je negde između pa završava karijeru,Karlović je stariji a igra...sve je to individualno
Mogu svi da odluče da recimo od sledeće sezone okače rekete o klin.